When Your Career Is Your Whole Identity, What Can Go Wrong?
Episode 502 | Host: Emilie Aries | Guest: Dr. Janna Koretz
How can you make sure your career doesn’t become your whole identity?
Passion for our careers can drive us to achieve great things. But what happens if that laser focus on the job becomes the only thing in our lives, edging out the personal goals, hobbies, and relationships that make us well-rounded human beings?
While there’s often talk about losing oneself in motherhood or codependent relationships, psychologist Dr. Janna Koretz noticed similar trends among people in high-pressure jobs. She founded Azimuth Psychological to address this oversight, to treat those who experience career enmeshment: the complete entrenchment of their identities in their work. In this episode, Dr. Koretz and I discuss the potential pitfalls of living for the job and how a clearer understanding of our values can help us remain passionate and committed without losing ourselves in our careers.
What happens when your career becomes your whole identity?
No one is just one thing. While dedication to your career is a positive attribute, when your whole identity is wrapped up in it, you set yourself up for a major fallout. Almost everyone experiences a career setback at some point. If you identify only as your job, that missed promotion, layoff, arrival of a child, or retirement is liable to leave you unmoored, grasping for who you are now that it’s gone. In her work, Dr. Koretz sees how these events can lead to a total career existential crisis or worse: depression, anxiety, and substance use.
How can you start to untangle your career and identity?
It’s not hard to imagine how we might become fully embedded in our careers. After all, people in service professions and positions that consume a significant number of years to achieve have worked extremely hard to get to where they are. If we make partner in our firm, say, or finally arrive in the c-suite, only to discover we aren’t enjoying it as much as we expected to, that can be deeply stressful and confusing.
Part of the problem, Dr. Koretz explains, is that most people are not given the opportunity to make sure their chosen career paths align with their values. They work from a flawed belief structure—the values their parents and teachers imposed on them that they never questioned, those of the culture surrounding them in school or at work, or simply outdated values they’ve left behind. When the misalignment is revealed, they are left not only with an unsatisfactory career (or, in the case of job loss, no career at all) but also no understanding of how to identify or fill the other “baskets” of their personalities that have been left empty for so long.
What’s the link between career enmeshment and values alignment?
Values are a compass for us, Dr. Koretz explains. When a misalignment is revealed, she and her team begin by helping the patient take a step back from the autopilot on which they’ve been operating and figure out what they actually care about.
Clarity about who you are and what’s important to you feels good; it feels grounding. So, a first step is to take an inventory of your values. If you aren’t lucky enough to be a patient of Dr. Koretz’s, you can take her free values assessment to start figuring out what values underpin your identity. Then, it’s time to take an honest look at how you’re living and determine how closely that lifestyle corresponds with those real values.
Take action in line with your true values
If you realize your current work identity doesn’t align with your true values, quitting—or single-mindedly pursuing the perfect new career if you’ve been laid off—isn’t always an option. However, Dr. Koretz points out that it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. Everyone likes the idea of grand gestures, she says, but the things that actually make change happen over time are often boring and small. Sometimes, if you feel down this week, it’s as simple as recognizing that health is one of your primary values and you haven’t had a nutritious, home-cooked meal in days.
Building a five- or ten-year roadmap is another practice Dr. Koretz employs to help people see the path to a career more in line with their values. The adjustments might be incremental—just some more fulfilling volunteer work, an intentional break, or taking on a certain type of project in your current job, not a whole new career. But keep adding small things, over time, and big changes happen. Even if you have to pause or stop the roadmap at some point, at least you’ll be so much closer to living a balanced life that upholds all your values.
How do Dr. Koretz’s words resonate with you? Is your identity all wrapped up in your career, or do you have a diverse array of baskets you regularly fill? Share your take on pursuing values-aligned work and life on the Courage Community on Facebook or our group on LinkedIn.
Related links from today’s episode:
“Working Identity” by Herminia Ibarra
Connect with Azimuth on Instagram
Download Azimuth’s mindful journaling app
Take Dr. Koretz’s Values Navigator quiz
Take the Career Enmeshment Test
LEVEL UP: a Leadership Accelerator for Women on the Rise
LEVEL UP your career in a way that aligns with your values:
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EMILIE: Hey, and welcome to the Bossed Up podcast, episode 502. I'm your host, Emilie Aries, the Founder and CEO of Bossed Up. And today I am delighted to be sitting down with Dr. Janna Koretz to discuss what happens when your entire identity becomes wrapped up in your career.
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This is a common challenge that we've talked about in a million different ways on this podcast before, but I'm really excited to dive in with a professional therapist who can help us untangle the mess that is career identity enmeshment. Now, Dr. Koretz is the founder of Azimuth, a therapy practice specializing in the mental health challenges of individuals in high pressure careers. She spent over a decade helping her clients face and overcome mental health challenges by developing a unique understanding of industry specific nuances in fields like law, consulting, finance and technology.
In addition to therapy, Dr. Koretz has been featured in a ton of publications, including a couple great articles that she's penned for the Harvard Business Review, which I'll link to in today's show notes. And she also speaks on the challenges of discovering and living your personal values, which we touch upon as well. Beyond therapy, Azimuth provides a set of free online tools that have helped ten tens of thousands of people, including the Burnout Calculator, the Career Enmeshment Test, and the Values Navigator, which she's recently released in the form of an a journaling app for iOS as well. So, Dr. Janna Koretz, welcome to the Bossed Up podcast.
DR. JANA: Thank you. Happy to be here.
EMILIE: Dr. Koretz, tell us a little bit about how you got into this work.
DR. JANA: Yeah, so I started noticing this sort of group of people having a hard time back when I was 15 in grad school, I went to my five year college reunion and I noticed that the people who, I had a lot of friends who went into banking and um, you know, various finance jobs or law, like straight into law school, and they did not look well. And you know, upon chatting more with them and just learning about their grueling schedules and all the things that come along that we know come along with high pressure careers. Wow, you guys all should be in therapy. I think that'd be really helpful for you.
To just manage your stress levels, you know, like a lot of them didn't have any coping strategies. And back then, you know, I'm older, I guess, so there was still a stigma attached to therapy, like a much greater stigma. And then once I got out of school and I was, I moved up to Boston, I realized, you know, we're in Boston and Cambridge area, there's a lot of, this is an academic hub. There's a lot of high pressure careers here as well. So we started when I opened up a practice. Those are the people who we started to see naturally. And I realized that this was sort of an unmet need. It has been sort of a group of people that historically has been looked over in the mental health field. And I thought it would be important to address it head on. And so that's kind of how we ended up really focusing in on this group.
EMILIE: Yeah, that's great. Would you say you're a Gen Xer?
DR. JANA: No, I'm an Elder Millennial.
EMILIE: You're an Elder Millennial. Okay. Because this is, I think there's an interesting generational aspect to this. First of all, you can't say things like, I'm older. If you're a fellow millennial. I don't know what you're talking about.
DR. JANA: I know I'm still 25, right?
EMILIE: Yeah. Millennials. I was joking that we were Forever 21, but now Forever 21 is filed for bankruptcy, so clearly we're not.
DR. JANA: What a metaphor. [LAUGHTER]
EMILIE: Yeah, exactly. Well, I ask because, you know, when I think about our identities being so wrapped up with our careers as, like, high pressure professionals, there was this zeitgeist. When we came of age as millennials of, like, hustle culture and pursue your passion, it was really easy to see your identity as one and the same as your profession. And so I do wonder, like, maybe let's just start with talking about what that is. You define this as career identity enmeshment. What does that mean to you, and how can we think about this, as we continue the conversation.
DR. JANA: Well, you raise a good point, because I always say this at the beginning. Just because you're enmeshed with your career doesn't mean, like, that's not necessarily a bad thing. It often is problematic for people, and that's where we come in. But sometimes it's not. And an example I give sometimes is physicians, you know, their whole life is wrapped up in their hospital work and, you know, being a doctor and helping people. But sometimes that's not problematic for them. It's just the life that they lead.
But career enmeshment is when your whole identity is wrapped up into your career. So, you know, we're all people, we're dimensional. We have a lot of baskets, so to speak. Or we did, you know, we're not just one thing, whatever that one thing is. And so, what happens is, if everything rests on your career at some point that falls apart. You don't get hired at the job you want, you miss a promotion, your company gets acquired, you get laid off, and you're left with nothing. People have really big existential crises about that because it's like, without this, who am I? This is all I ever do. It's what I know. I don't even know how to spend my time. I don't know who I am. I don't know what I like. And it's a really big problem for people. And they can get really depressed and anxious and start using substances and all kinds of things.
EMILIE: I think you put it so plainly in your Harvard Business article titled What Happens When Your Career Becomes Your Whole Identity. You write, quote, “while identifying closely with your career isn't necessarily bad, it makes you vulnerable to a painful identity crisis if you burn out, get laid off, or retire”. And I just think that is such a good point because at some point in our lives, our careers might not be as fulfilling and part of our entire identity as they once were, right? Especially if you think about that transition into retirement, if your whole sense of self is so wrapped up in what you do for a living, that can be a very destabilizing, identity crisis inducing moment, right?
DR. JANA: Yeah, absolutely. And I think what also happens too is people work hard to get to that place. You know, they go to the schools, they do their extracurriculars, they get into this college, they get into this graduate school, they get the right internship. All the things, they check all the boxes, they do it, they arrive, whatever that means, right? Like they become partner of the law firm, let's say, and, and they're miserable. And that's confusing because I did it. This is, I'm here. But it's not actually what deep down inside is in alignment with your own values. But no one has been given the opportunity to even think about that either. And that's kind of a, I mean, they're related, but that's also kind of a separate thing that we talk about a lot about. Values, misalignment. But it does carry a lot into career enmeshment.
EMILIE: Right. It's interesting because, like, I think you opened your Harvard Business Review article talking about a lawyer who hated his job and found himself really depressed and, and having a total crisis about it. And the question is, like, if you hate your job and your identity is so wrapped up in your job, do you really just hate yourself? And that's a big scary question. If you find yourself arriving at this point You've worked so hard for, you've got so much, like, sunk costs invested into it. How do you even begin unraveling that with your clients? How do you even begin finding acceptance to even acknowledge your feelings about this career you've worked so hard for being not what you wanted them to be?
DR. JANA: Yeah, and we do honestly start with a lot of values work, because whether, you know, this has led you to problems in your relationships with yourself, mood issues, I mean, you're saying, like, people dislike themselves because they dislike their job. You know, we kind of take a step back and we think about, like, who are you as a person? What do you actually care about? And what does your life look like? Like, how do you get the things that are most important to you in your life? And most of us, especially in the work culture that we all live in, don't have that a lot.
We don't know necessarily what it is that is important or we thought we knew, but it changed, right? Things happen to people over time. They become more insightful. They have kids, you know, events happen. Like, traumatic events happen, and their perspectives shift and new things become important. And because people don't have a moment to even think about any of these things, it’s, they're sort of on autopilot of just doing whatever that is being done either around them or things that they've always done. And so we really take a step back and think about, like, who this person is. And through those conversations and those intervention exercises and all the things that we do, we kind of, people start to learn about what those other baskets are and, you know, how to fill them.
EMILIE: Yeah, and I love the baskets metaphor because this idea of, like, diversification to me is so key. You don't want all your eggs in one basket in terms of who you are as a person. One of my favorite researchers is Herminia Ibarra. Are you familiar with her work by any chance? She wrote a great book a million years ago now, probably in the, like, late 80s, early 90s, called Working Identity. And she talks about how our work identities, our sense of who we are at work can't be defined without others.
And I think about the transition into motherhood, which you wrote another amazing Harvard Business Review article on, you know, that relationship to our children, our relationship to our spouse, our relationship to our parents, our relationship to our profession, you know, and our colleagues that often dictates the roles and the hats that we see ourselves wearing in relation to others. Especially for women who are conditioned to, like, put everyone's needs before our own. Right? So when you think about diversification of identity, and I do want to dig into the values aspect, but like when life happens to you, how does your identity evolve over time? Like how does that change and expand? Expand or shrink over time?
DR. JANA: Well, I think a lot, you know, once you become an adult, you know, I think kids have a lot of different experiences with which impact the choices you make as an adult, who you are, things like that. But you know, I think that there are so many parts of a person and there's so many things even like a smaller identities, right? It's like I like to cook. So part of you, there's a little piece of you that's a chef. You know, we talk a lot about identity enmeshment in motherhood. You know, people become lost in being a mom. They don't know who they are anymore. They have no, you know, this drives me insane. But people talk about, you know, self care, take a shower. It's like those are basic needs. That's not self care, but that's a whole other conversation.
EMILIE: Yes, amen.
DR. JANA: Yes. You know, and just people get, and women just don't know who they are anymore. And they don't have time to figure it out. They barely have time to eat, you know, especially with little kids. And so we talk a lot about it in that way. And sometimes people talk about enmeshment as it pertains to other people, you know, being like codependent and things like that. But rarely do we talk about how the career piece is so part of our culture now. And we have such a work culture. We're not allowed to take vacation. You're not, you know, you're just work, work, work all the time, never unplug. And it's such a prevalent thing.
EMILIE: Is this a white collar problem? Is this something that like working class folks can't identify with? I think of some of my friends that I grew up with in like Hartford County, Connecticut, and even some of them who are white collar professionals, they say to me, look, I clock in and I clock out and I go home. My work does not define me. Like, this high pressure career like you talked about, doctors and lawyers, is this just a small sliver of the workforce that really falls prey to that?
DR. JANA: You know, certainly there are some careers that lend itself to that, right. Things like finance or being a lawyer, law. But I don't think it's. It's only. It's not siloed into white collar jobs, you know, and I think about like Amazon employees who work in the warehouses. I mean, like, my god, you know, and they're on the clock all the time and they have to do their routes in a certain amount of time and they get dinged for all this stuff, you know, and all the things that we've been learning about that, I mean, that's, that is a pressure cooker, big time. And does that become part of your identity? I don't know.
EMILIE: I'm thinking also of like the farmer. Like a farmer. That's a lifestyle, right? That's an identity. I don't think the Amazon warehouse worker wakes up and thinks I'm an Amazon worker. You know what I mean? But I do think there are different kinds of professions that might lend themselves more to that enmeshment of an identity. Because, in a world in which dairy farmers, like the ones who operate their farms around my in-laws farm in the Catskills of New York, the ability to make a living as a dairy farmer today is like, next to impossible. But that's what they, they have done and that's what their fathers, and grandfathers, and great grandfathers did. And so it's like it can become so hard to transform your career when your identity is so wrapped up in it.
DR. JANA: Yes, absolutely. So to your point, no, I don't think it's limited to white collar jobs. I think there are a lot of white collar jobs that promote that kind of culture, but certainly isn't limited to that.
EMILIE: Yeah. So let's dig into the values alignment thing because I noticed that on your website you've got an assessment around how enmeshed your identity is. I took it. I loved taking it. It was kind of an interesting exercise. And I want you to speak to that assessment. And then also the next step at the bottom of that process was like, okay, let's talk about values alignment. So how is identity, enmeshment and values alignment related?
DR. JANA: I think in general with values, right? They're, they are kind of a compass for us. And being able to know who you are and what is important to you and feeling really grounded in that and good about that is very hard to do. And then I think from there you have these other pieces like your work, your home, your community service, whatever. And so when you say how are they related? I think they're almost like one in the same, right?
So how are you living? And do those correspond well or not well to your values? And then if they are not in alignment, a lot of fallout from that. And so that can happen whether you're enmeshed in your career or not, but it often is correlated with people who are enmeshed, you know, with their career. They're not in alignment. And so when the career piece falls apart, they don't have anything to fall back on. They don't know why they're making choices. I mean, values are so pillars of decision making. If you're really clear on what's important, it's not that hard to make choices, and it's not that hard to explain why. And I mean, they're hard choices, and, you know, jobs get complicated in terms of finances and stuff like that. But, like, what you want and what you need is clear, and you can say why that is. And so. And that's really grounding as well.
EMILIE: Yeah. You know, what came to mind as you were speaking is. And I think a lot of therapists I've talked to love this movie. Have you seen Inside Out?
DR. JANA: Yeah.
EMILIE: And I think people in the profession, in your profession, have lauded the movie for how they've created visual representation of the psyche, right? And these things, like Goofball island being like, a character pillar of this, the main protagonist, right? I almost think of your identity as, like, these pillars of values, like, who am I? What do I care about? And where it gets complicated for folks is like, show me your budget or show me your calendar, and I'll tell you what you're valuing, right?
So when you have these proclaimed values, this sense of what's important to me is being a present mother. What's important to me is being a vocal advocate for workers rights. And then you look at my calendar or you look at my budget and say, how much time or resources am I devoting to these things that I say are really important to me? When there's, like, dissonance there that I think can create a sense of, am I just acting on autopilot? Am I just keeping up with the Joneses? Like, is there conflict that you see with your clients there between that proclaimed set of values and the lived experiences?
DR. JANA: Yes, because I often feel like their proclaimed values are not actually theirs.
EMILIE: Oh, interesting.
DR. JANA: And this happened to me as well. I mean, you kind of assume the values of the culture that you come up with sometimes. And so then, you know, you think you're this, or you think you believe this, but you've never been necessarily been exposed to people who think differently or have had the ability to have civil discourse on the topic, right? And hear other perspectives, read books about other things. Like, you know, and so you make all these choices based on that.
But when you get older you realize, or you eventually hopefully you realize that those aren't actually things that are important to you or they're fine, but they're not the most important things to you. And so then you find yourself, you're living in alignment to values that you thought might have been yours or were yours previously but now, you know, you're older now and that's not true anymore.
EMILIE: Yeah, it's like, oh, I'm still living for my parents approval. Oops, I'm 40. Like can we give that up now? You know what I mean?
DR. JANA: Not even like approval, but just like this is how we are. Like, for example, I'll use myself as an example. You know, I grew up in a place that was pretty homogeneous. It was a very like super liberal place for the most part. And I had never met anybody who like voted Republican really. And I you know, so it's like Republicans are bad, Democrats are good. And so when I got to college I started meeting all these people who were very different from I, than I was and had different life experiences and all this. And hearing their perspectives like, oh, that makes a little sense. I know this is a touchy subject to like metaphor to use at this time.
EMILIE: I am so glad you went here because I have a million follow up questions. Keep going. Yeah.
DR. JANA: Yeah. And not to say I necessarily became, I mean I didn't become a Republican because of that.
EMILIE: Right. I mean you're still living in the liberal beacon that is Boston, Massachusetts, not exactly known for its diversity of, of race or thought, but.
DR. JANA: Yes, right, exactly. But I certainly gained an appreciation of others perspectives and it really pushed me kind of a little more to the middle of saying like oh, I could see how that's a problem and this is a problem. So like, how could we solve both problems and kind of being a little more in the gray area and not vilifying other people because of a label they might have had. And so you know, even now like that might not be congruent to my family of origin. I feel much more comfortable in that because I know that I did my own research, so to speak, and had my own life experiences. And I think this is, this fits me more, you know, I feel like more comfortable here than I did.
EMILIE: Well, I think it's so great when you brought up civil discourse as it relates to values alignment, I was like, ooh, are we going into the, the public narrative around this, right? Because as a country I think we've lost that skill to Have a civil discourse.
DR. JANA: Oh, my god. It does not exist.
EMILIE: No. Certainly not being modeled. I mean, what you're describing is this, like, dehumanization of people who disagree with us. And if that's where we're starting from, like, of course it's hard to identify our own values if we've been taught that anyone who disagrees with the values you may have inherited from your culture is crazy, right? Or is inhuman in some way.
DR. JANA: Yeah. I mean, this is certainly getting into a much bigger conversation about the world and its place right now. But, yeah, I mean, I think if you don't have freedom of thought in general about yourself or you don't know what questions to ask, which is often the case too. If you go to therapy, for example, for us, for our clients, we help them. We ask them the questions they need to be asked. We help them think about things together. You know, it's collaborative so that they can do that work because they don't know what to ask. You know, it's like people don't know where to begin, which is appropriate because it's not necessarily their line of work. But there's no roadmap for that.
EMILIE: That's so true. Yeah. I mean, I love this conversation because here in Colorado, we're a very purplish state. And I grew up in the coastal liberal, you know, New England myself, with a very similar family of origin. And this place is so much more moderate, just like being involved in politics here in Colorado, it's been a very interesting eye opening and moderating experience, much like you've described. And so I do think it all relates back to our identity and our values. But I do wonder, for those of us who can't necessarily all be in your chair virtually or otherwise, right? As a therapy client, how might folks begin in terms of identifying the values that might be unconsciously guiding their life choices?
DR. JANA: Well, firstly, we do have a free tool for this, which I love. It's based on Shalom Schwartz's research about values. And that kind of can help people really think about what's important to them and give them a starting place. I mean, it gives you, at the end, your top three values and kind of thinking about what that means, because they're pretty broad. For example, one of them is achievement, or power, or kindness. You know, what is that? And then you can say, well, how does. What does that mean to me? How does that apply to my life?
And that's just a good conversation starter because like anything in therapy and people hate this, you know, it's not quick. It's not one and done. You know, thinking of. You are a complicated person. You know, to untie and untease and like gain insight doesn't take four seconds because there's a lot to know. There's a lot to think about. So I like that assessment. That's why we put it on there and thousands of people take it a day. It's really popular. Which is actually, this is separate but we made an app now for this because it was, it's so important.
EMILIE: Oh, cool.
DR. JANA: Yeah. But basically is based on the values navigator. So we basically, you put in your top three values into the app and it's a values based journaling app. And let me tell you, as somebody who does not like journaling does not come naturally to me. And it's not, you know, my own therapist has been trying to get me to do it for a hundred years and I've been pretty resistant. So I understand that it's not for everybody. But I will say I did start doing it and it is helpful. But anyway, this is a way to kind of document what happened in the day and then you can rate how in alignment it is with your values.
And if you're not sure where to start, because I think like we talked about, that can be an issue. We have prompts. You can add prompts in which are written that you can download. They're like by category. One of them is values. And we've written some, we have some outside people who've written some for us, you know, about like relationship coaching and things like that. And so you can always have a prompt come in. And they're written by people who know who work in this area and understand. And there are things that like I would ask a client and that helps sort of generate ideas of things to write about or ways to think about your day and how they are related to your values.
EMILIE: What a great way to inject mindfulness into your day.
DR. JANA: Thanks.
EMILIE: Right? Because like that's the thing about your values is that they're so unconscious for so many of us that when you're having a frustrating experience at work or feeling burnt out or detached and disengaged, you're like, I don't know what this dissatisfaction is. And that can kind of help you force yourself to reflect on, oh, I have an ethical misalignment with this role. That's why I feel this way. Or like, just get to the root of it.
DR. JANA: And even smaller things that feel like they don't matter do. So, you know, like, you know, as an example, if health is very important to you, and now we are starting to know a lot about ingredients and processed food and such, it's really important to you to make food for your family. And so you do it sometimes because everything is not perfect and whatever and you're having a really bad week, feel very agitated. And then you, as you're writing, you realize, oh my god, I haven't, haven't made dinner in three days. And that feels so small, but it's so important because it brings so much joy and comfort and relief to this person that, you know, making dinner matters.
And I think, we talk about this all the time where everybody wants like grand gestures and big changes and sweeping decisions and stuff like that, but the things that actually matter and, you know, help with change are like, incredibly boring and small. And nobody wants to talk about them because they're boring and small.
But they are important and in aggregate they matter and they make a big difference. So we talk a lot about that too. When you're talking about values and you know, because people who come to us anyway will say like they're, let's say they're in corporate law and they realize where they actually want to be is more of a public servant role. And for a lot of reasons you can't just quit your job. And so like, how do we gain pieces of what's of the job that you need because of those values in other small ways and even at like sprinkling those into this corporate life that you have really matters and really makes a difference in terms of joy and groundedness and fulfillment and all of that.
EMILIE: Totally. I think there's such a bright spot and such optimism behind the fact that small decisions make a huge difference. So like, while changing your career is daunting and exhausting and sometimes not really an option, what you're saying is, look, if you can bring a little bit more alignment into your day to day values in how you're acting and the choices you're making, that can go a long way to reverse the challenges of burnout and depression and anxiety, right?
DR. JANA: A hundred percent. That can be an endpoint. Or for a lot of our clients too, they know they want to change careers and they can't now for a variety of reasons. So let's make a long, like a 10 year, 5, 10 year roadmap of how you could get there and how we're going to continue to sprinkle that in more and more along the way. And then if you have to stop at any point on that roadmap. Well, fine. At least it's better than it was. And you know, you can always come back to that. So we can do that as well.
EMILIE: I love that. Incremental progress over overnight perfection. Right?
DR. JANA: Yes, I know. Which is so dissatisfying for everybody. But that's just like, if you want the outcome, those. That's what needs to happen.
EMILIE: Totally. I love that. Dr. Janna, thank you so much for sharing so many great resources. I can't wait to drop links in today's show notes to both of those Harvard Business Review articles that you've authored, your app, and those resources on your website. Where can our listeners catch up and learn more about what you have to offer?
DR. JANA: Yeah, so we put everything on our website. All the tabs, all the apps, the bells and whistles, the tools. So it's azimuthpsych.com a, z, i, m, u, t, h, p, s, y, c h dot com. And every time I do this on a podcast, I regret a little bit picking that name for the name of our company. But that's okay. And yeah, it's all there. If you want to be in touch directly, I'm happy to speak to you. I have a ton of clinicians also who work for me, and they're available as well. So we're here.
EMILIE: Well, congrats on all that you've built and the great ways in which you're serving people. This is really inspiring.
DR. JANA: Thank you. I appreciate that.
EMILIE: For links to everything Dr. Koretz and I just talked about, head to bossedup.org/episode502, that's bossedup.org/episode502. And now I want to hear from you. Do you feel like your identity is all wrapped up in your career, or do you have a diverse array of buckets that you draw from?
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When it comes to your sense of self, let's keep the conversation going as always, in the Bossed Up Courage Community on Facebook or in the Bossed Up Group on LinkedIn. And until next time, let's keep bossin’ in pursuit of our purpose, and together, let's lift as we climb.
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